MacCoaster
Oct 12, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by benixau
for crying out load, who cares if a pc can do its sums better than a mac. My brother does maths better than me but i kick him in english.
In other words if i am more productive on my mac then it doesnt matter that it might be a little 'slower' it is a faster machine because i can work faster. End of story. New Thread.
Believe me, a lot of people do. Thanks to my UNIX knowledge, I am so much more productive in Linux/BSD on a PC than a Mac. For beginners to computers, sure Macs could be much more productive.
We were just discussing the G4--it was never intended to be an explict vs war between Mac and PCs. It's not a software thread. It's a frickin' hardware thread where we are discussing the inferiority of the G4.
Research scientists should think twice before using a Mac for research--since the G4 blows so much. That's where it matters. It's faster for them to use PCs than Macs. Gee, by 100 seconds. Think about it... a lot of scientific formulas are a lot more complex than our simplistic benchmark programs--100 minutes is sure much longer than 5 minutes.
for crying out load, who cares if a pc can do its sums better than a mac. My brother does maths better than me but i kick him in english.
In other words if i am more productive on my mac then it doesnt matter that it might be a little 'slower' it is a faster machine because i can work faster. End of story. New Thread.
Believe me, a lot of people do. Thanks to my UNIX knowledge, I am so much more productive in Linux/BSD on a PC than a Mac. For beginners to computers, sure Macs could be much more productive.
We were just discussing the G4--it was never intended to be an explict vs war between Mac and PCs. It's not a software thread. It's a frickin' hardware thread where we are discussing the inferiority of the G4.
Research scientists should think twice before using a Mac for research--since the G4 blows so much. That's where it matters. It's faster for them to use PCs than Macs. Gee, by 100 seconds. Think about it... a lot of scientific formulas are a lot more complex than our simplistic benchmark programs--100 minutes is sure much longer than 5 minutes.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 26, 11:46 PM
Nearly forty years ago psychologists declared homosexuality was not a mental illness
I don't know whether homosexuality is a mental illness. But I do know that doctors and other professionals sometimes make mistakes.
About 25 years ago, an acquaintance of mine told my mother that for about 15 years, a doctor treated her, my acquaintance, with the wrong medicine because her illness had been misdiagnosed. Unfortunately, after another doctor discovered the misdiagnosis, he also discovered that the medicine was worsening her symptoms.
When I was about 17, my optometrist realized that, if I kept wearing the glasses an opthamologist prescribed for me, they would blind me. The optometrist prescribed the lenses I needed and corrected the vision problem for which I visited him. Thanks to the optometrist, I can drive.
It is no longer understood to be the case that homosexuality entails a necessary harm to the participants or anyone else.
Dr. Joseph Nicolosi disagrees. So does another psychologist who gave a lecture series called "Homosexuality 101." If the lecture series interests anyone here, I'll post links to its Youtube videos, or I'll try to explain the lecturer's theory. But I prefer to let the lecturer speak for herself because I'm not an expert in psychology.
Quite the contrary, same-sex couples are known to form loving, supportive, monogamous relationships every bit as profound as those enjoyed between men and women.
Although that's true, it doesn't show that homosexuality is a healthy quality to have.
I don't know whether homosexuality is a mental illness. But I do know that doctors and other professionals sometimes make mistakes.
About 25 years ago, an acquaintance of mine told my mother that for about 15 years, a doctor treated her, my acquaintance, with the wrong medicine because her illness had been misdiagnosed. Unfortunately, after another doctor discovered the misdiagnosis, he also discovered that the medicine was worsening her symptoms.
When I was about 17, my optometrist realized that, if I kept wearing the glasses an opthamologist prescribed for me, they would blind me. The optometrist prescribed the lenses I needed and corrected the vision problem for which I visited him. Thanks to the optometrist, I can drive.
It is no longer understood to be the case that homosexuality entails a necessary harm to the participants or anyone else.
Dr. Joseph Nicolosi disagrees. So does another psychologist who gave a lecture series called "Homosexuality 101." If the lecture series interests anyone here, I'll post links to its Youtube videos, or I'll try to explain the lecturer's theory. But I prefer to let the lecturer speak for herself because I'm not an expert in psychology.
Quite the contrary, same-sex couples are known to form loving, supportive, monogamous relationships every bit as profound as those enjoyed between men and women.
Although that's true, it doesn't show that homosexuality is a healthy quality to have.
wdogmedia
Aug 29, 02:48 PM
Im not saying stop using energy. I'm saying use a different source. Wind, water, sun. theres plenty of other ways to heat your home out there. Geothermal too
I agree with you there....I'm just saying that humans don't have near the impact on global warming that we supposedly do. Deforestation and endangering other creatures is a different story, though.....
I agree with you there....I'm just saying that humans don't have near the impact on global warming that we supposedly do. Deforestation and endangering other creatures is a different story, though.....
needthephone
Apr 21, 06:28 AM
Please explain to me how I am experiencing a "degraded" experience on my current Android phone?
I can do everything your iPhone can, plus tether at no additional cost and download any song I want for free.
Ease of use in Android is just as simple as an iPhone, with the ability to customize IF YOU SO PLEASE.
So if you would, cut the degraded experience crap.
So you can steal artists property. Tell me how you can justify that? Nothing to do with android or ios but please tell me how you can justify stealing. Its the same as going into a shop and taking something. Sure nothing will happen immediately but I guarantee you will pay for it.
I live in a country of excess. Excuse me if I don't weep at night because Kanye West or Lil Wayne are missing out on my $1+ for their songs.
If an artist isn't mainstream, I'll gladly pay for their music to support it. But since my musical tastes tend to gravitate towards major artists, I don't think twice when I torrent their albums.
Sorry that's like saying I only steal from big manufactures like Heinz or Kellogs.
YOU ARE STILL A THIEF.
I can do everything your iPhone can, plus tether at no additional cost and download any song I want for free.
Ease of use in Android is just as simple as an iPhone, with the ability to customize IF YOU SO PLEASE.
So if you would, cut the degraded experience crap.
So you can steal artists property. Tell me how you can justify that? Nothing to do with android or ios but please tell me how you can justify stealing. Its the same as going into a shop and taking something. Sure nothing will happen immediately but I guarantee you will pay for it.
I live in a country of excess. Excuse me if I don't weep at night because Kanye West or Lil Wayne are missing out on my $1+ for their songs.
If an artist isn't mainstream, I'll gladly pay for their music to support it. But since my musical tastes tend to gravitate towards major artists, I don't think twice when I torrent their albums.
Sorry that's like saying I only steal from big manufactures like Heinz or Kellogs.
YOU ARE STILL A THIEF.
Mr.Gadget
Sep 25, 11:35 PM
Exactly... Now I have to wait even longer to jump into the Mac foray... I'm holding on until these 8-ways come out... I hope it is soon!
I know there isn't much point as I won't need that horsepower, but the bang for buck is what keeps me holding on just a little longer. No way am I waiting until Christmas though! :-)
I know there isn't much point as I won't need that horsepower, but the bang for buck is what keeps me holding on just a little longer. No way am I waiting until Christmas though! :-)
sprakope
Aug 29, 11:21 AM
Besides, I said that Apple is doing what they can.
Actually, the last shareholder meeting had the vote to start the computer recycling program. The board of directors recommended that the shareholders vote "No" but the shareholders decided that the recycling program was important.
I love Apple as much as the next guy, but that recommendation was irresponsible and backwards. Apple deserves this bad press.
[edited to fix the quote. i quoted the wrong post]
Actually, the last shareholder meeting had the vote to start the computer recycling program. The board of directors recommended that the shareholders vote "No" but the shareholders decided that the recycling program was important.
I love Apple as much as the next guy, but that recommendation was irresponsible and backwards. Apple deserves this bad press.
[edited to fix the quote. i quoted the wrong post]
bretm
Sep 20, 11:23 AM
I was going to ask why not a PRV, but realized it myself. While apple does not prevent you from loading music you have aquired through other means onto your iPod, they don't help you either. They don't help you buy CD's because its too broad an experience to simplfy. Same with the PVR. How a customer aquires content from a provider varies too much for apple to engineer an simple solution. But they can provide their own simple content delivery solution.
Next, they need to provide an NAS for all your media either from the store, ripped from disc or created yourself. Move the media off the computer.
?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.
So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.
Next, they need to provide an NAS for all your media either from the store, ripped from disc or created yourself. Move the media off the computer.
?? TiVo will provide you a PVR that burns DVDs, has a tuner and hard drive, and wirelessly connects to your macintosh and plays your photo library and itunes for $300 plus you have to buy a usb network reciever for like $25.
So it's basically the same thing except for the videos which of course didn't exist when tivo adopted the technology, and since they'll play your photos they'll probalby adopt the videos too. I think I'll just hold out for my TiVo to do the same thing PLUS be a PVR and DVD burner.
Thomas2006
Oct 26, 12:26 PM
The move to intel shifts Apple paradigm for good. Expect your Apple computers and gadgets to be absolete much2 sooner
The computers will not become obsolete much2 sooner but your bragging rights will.
The computers will not become obsolete much2 sooner but your bragging rights will.
RickieVz
Oct 4, 10:14 PM
I'm wondering what the specifics about dropped calls in New York City would look like.
On average I get about 3-4 dropped calls every day. Every. Single. Day.
My roommate on Verizon has had one dropped call in the year that we have lived together.
I've had 4 to 5 calls daily. I'm tired. Happens mostly at home with 5 bars. Cell tower is about 3 blocks from my place.
On average I get about 3-4 dropped calls every day. Every. Single. Day.
My roommate on Verizon has had one dropped call in the year that we have lived together.
I've had 4 to 5 calls daily. I'm tired. Happens mostly at home with 5 bars. Cell tower is about 3 blocks from my place.
wrlsmarc
Jun 19, 02:07 PM
Just spent the last week in Manhattan. Wow. Service has seriously improved. I used my data card for the week to check email and work from my hotel. Good speeds and very reliable. I lost one connection over a period of 6 days and that may have been my data card fault. I use a mifi from Novatel, the device can sometimes be quirky establishing a connection. Overall my performance was solid.
I aslo used my iPhone extensively for conversation. I did not drop one call the whole week and was on it continuously. In years past driving around corners would result in suspect connections but none of that happened this trip. Finally, my iPad data rates were near 2kpbs download speeds with acceptable latency.
I assume that much of the negative chatter about AT&T is from those that have not used their service in a while. Bad memories tend to run long. I live in San Francisco and service is improving there as well, although the New York market I would rate as pretty perfect.
I aslo used my iPhone extensively for conversation. I did not drop one call the whole week and was on it continuously. In years past driving around corners would result in suspect connections but none of that happened this trip. Finally, my iPad data rates were near 2kpbs download speeds with acceptable latency.
I assume that much of the negative chatter about AT&T is from those that have not used their service in a while. Bad memories tend to run long. I live in San Francisco and service is improving there as well, although the New York market I would rate as pretty perfect.
WestonHarvey1
Apr 15, 01:14 PM
...isn't true.
Matthew 5:18-19
Mark 7:9-13
Luke 16:17
Also, I love the use of the term "true Christian". It's perfect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Yeah, I was waiting for that one. It's pretty low-rent as far as fallacies go, I'm not sure why it is trotted out as often as it is. It's always used to argue stupid things like Hitler's religious beliefs represent the truest form of Christianity, and if you don't believe so, you're violating this sacred "No true Scotsman" fallacy.
No TRUE circle is square! Yeah, that one's true. You can't torpedo a well-defined institution by finding an example of someone not living up to its rules.
Matthew 5:18-19
Mark 7:9-13
Luke 16:17
Also, I love the use of the term "true Christian". It's perfect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Yeah, I was waiting for that one. It's pretty low-rent as far as fallacies go, I'm not sure why it is trotted out as often as it is. It's always used to argue stupid things like Hitler's religious beliefs represent the truest form of Christianity, and if you don't believe so, you're violating this sacred "No true Scotsman" fallacy.
No TRUE circle is square! Yeah, that one's true. You can't torpedo a well-defined institution by finding an example of someone not living up to its rules.
kirk26
May 2, 11:36 AM
Bigger, most Windows PC have anti-virus, can you say the same for Macs?
http://www.mcafee.com/us/products/virusscan-for-mac.aspx
I have it on mine just in case. ;)
http://www.mcafee.com/us/products/virusscan-for-mac.aspx
I have it on mine just in case. ;)
DVD Plaza
Apr 13, 07:01 AM
What isn't great is the potential loss of features. Even the littlest feature, that most people would find mundane, could be very important to editors who've become used to that feature being in their workflow
Is this thread for real? People are all making up wild claims that features may or may not and missing, based on nothing more than Apple announcing an all new release, and then going ape about it?!
Steve Jobs may or may not stop wearing underwear, Ooooooh ahhhhhhh let's cry about that pie in the sky crock of...
I'm sure the sky isn't falling... From what I've read so far FCP X is THE rewrite Snow Leopard was made for, Apple have done precisely what FCP so badly needed. I for one look forward to reading all about it when people have actually used the thing.
Is this thread for real? People are all making up wild claims that features may or may not and missing, based on nothing more than Apple announcing an all new release, and then going ape about it?!
Steve Jobs may or may not stop wearing underwear, Ooooooh ahhhhhhh let's cry about that pie in the sky crock of...
I'm sure the sky isn't falling... From what I've read so far FCP X is THE rewrite Snow Leopard was made for, Apple have done precisely what FCP so badly needed. I for one look forward to reading all about it when people have actually used the thing.
Sodner
Apr 20, 08:36 PM
The android market has been growing at a faster rate then the Appstore.
Yea, one can never have enough FART SOUND APPS.
Yea, one can never have enough FART SOUND APPS.
MattInOz
Apr 20, 06:26 PM
But just like Windows, it's practically impossible to have any problems unless you do something stupid.
Another analogy - if you buy a car and put the wrong type of oil in it or inflate the tyres to the wrong pressure, bad things will probably happen.
If you don't know what you're doing with your own devices then maybe you need Apple to hold your hand.
Ummm.... not that I'm saying it's a bad analogy....
but... We have digital Tyre Pressure gauges these days they are far more accurate than the old manual gauges and make it easier to get the right pressure in your tyres just by attaching the hose and listening for the beeps.
I could use a foot pump at home and get it just right, but I'd rather use that time on something that brings real value to my life. Then again if I had a child who was at tinkering age then he/she would probably have an Android phone for us both to play with, and I'd still have my set and forget iPhone.
Oh... I would have used Fuel not Oil. I mean its easier to buy the wrong fuel than it is the wrong oil as the wrong oil doesn't tend to be sold in the same locations.
Another analogy - if you buy a car and put the wrong type of oil in it or inflate the tyres to the wrong pressure, bad things will probably happen.
If you don't know what you're doing with your own devices then maybe you need Apple to hold your hand.
Ummm.... not that I'm saying it's a bad analogy....
but... We have digital Tyre Pressure gauges these days they are far more accurate than the old manual gauges and make it easier to get the right pressure in your tyres just by attaching the hose and listening for the beeps.
I could use a foot pump at home and get it just right, but I'd rather use that time on something that brings real value to my life. Then again if I had a child who was at tinkering age then he/she would probably have an Android phone for us both to play with, and I'd still have my set and forget iPhone.
Oh... I would have used Fuel not Oil. I mean its easier to buy the wrong fuel than it is the wrong oil as the wrong oil doesn't tend to be sold in the same locations.
KnightWRX
May 2, 03:56 PM
It can't achieve privilege escalation without the user entering their admin password. That means it can't damage your Mac OS X installation.
Are you purposefully ignoring my point ? Look, if you don't know and don't care about the finer points, don't reply or try to participate.
I'm curious how it auto-executes the installer because that can have potential damaging results for a user account, without privilege escalation. My data is all in my user account, I don't care about a few system files so much as I care about my data.
Can we please leave the bickering and "it's just an installer" out of it and discuss the technical requirements behind this malware so we can better understand it ?
Are you purposefully ignoring my point ? Look, if you don't know and don't care about the finer points, don't reply or try to participate.
I'm curious how it auto-executes the installer because that can have potential damaging results for a user account, without privilege escalation. My data is all in my user account, I don't care about a few system files so much as I care about my data.
Can we please leave the bickering and "it's just an installer" out of it and discuss the technical requirements behind this malware so we can better understand it ?
KnightWRX
May 2, 05:16 PM
A few people need to stop being so short sighted in trying to meticulously defend the idea of "no viruses on Macs". Ultimately it's a rather hollow ideal to uphold because uninitiated users accept it as gospel and it doesn't encourage them to adopt safe computer practices.
It's not. You don't defend against viruses the way you do against worms the way you do against trojans. The distinction is important as the infection vectors differs and the defense mechanism also differ.
To lump all malware together as some common entity is what doesn't encourage users to adopt safe computer practices, instead relying on the snake oil sold by Intego and other FUD spreaders to "keep them safe".
Know thy enemy.
It's not. You don't defend against viruses the way you do against worms the way you do against trojans. The distinction is important as the infection vectors differs and the defense mechanism also differ.
To lump all malware together as some common entity is what doesn't encourage users to adopt safe computer practices, instead relying on the snake oil sold by Intego and other FUD spreaders to "keep them safe".
Know thy enemy.
cmaier
Apr 21, 04:58 PM
"Blame the user." It's the Microsoft way.
You're holding it wrong.
Come on, you were just asking for that :)
You're holding it wrong.
Come on, you were just asking for that :)
danielwsmithee
Aug 29, 11:10 AM
Do you have evidence of this just out of interest? I too was surprised to read this, so I'd be interested if you had evidence the other way.I wonder if they mentioned the fact that Dell has made the computer a disposable purchase with their $299 PCs. I'm serious people buy a new Dell every few years because they are garbage. Do you honestly think people give them back for recycling. They sell them on ebay or craigslist, and the new owner after about a year puts them in the dumpster. With Apple people keep their machines much longer, and are much more likely to recycle them because they are smaller and easier to take to a recycling center (no CRT). This alone makes Apple greener then Dell.
gugy
Aug 29, 02:50 PM
It isnt absolutley 100% false. There is an extreme amount of people on this planet. Look at that rathole of a place China. And in america, the immigrants. There are a hell of a lot of people and my solution: Nuke the middle-east.
and he said 40 years ago not 30 go back to 66 from NOW
What an intelligent statement.:rolleyes:
and he said 40 years ago not 30 go back to 66 from NOW
What an intelligent statement.:rolleyes:
digitalbiker
Sep 12, 04:55 PM
This is the device I've been waiting for 2+ years for Apple to come out with. Those who think this isn't a Tivo killer don't understand Tivo's plans. This hasn't just killed the current Tivo, this has killed the gen4 Tivo that isn't even out yet. It's stolen its thunder by at least a year if not much more.
It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.
Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.
As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.
This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.
You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!
First off Apple still has not managed to get much video content for their iTunes store.
Second, Apple has yet to supply any HD content.
Third, one of the biggest sources for high-speed broadband in the US is cable. So Apple isn't putting any cable company out of business anytime soon.
Fourth, Content providers like ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. will not make the content available to Apple until after it has been released to cable or over the air. Otherwise they will loose significant money from advertisers for exclusive airing rights content.
In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.
It's been obvious for awhile now that Tivo has been moving in their slow ponderous way towards a method of content delivery over internet. They have been doing it for ads for years now, and they want to do it with content so bad they can taste it. They hired a key guy from bittorrent several years ago, but haven't done anything impressive since. They want it, but with it taking them 3 years to go with cable card and dual tuner, they just aren't able to get their act together in time.
Apple has played their cards exactly right. They've done what Tivo, Netflix, Microsoft, Sony, and Blockbuster would all give their collective left nut to do. They've done what every local cable company and even every media mogul SHOULD have been laying awake worrying about, which is to have made them irrelevant in one fell swoop. Not to every single consumer by a long shot, but to a significant demographic of tech-savvy consumers who know what they want and will shift paradigms to get it.
As much as I want this right this very second, waiting for 802.11n is the right thing to do and I'm glad Apple did it. I don't have a TV, but I'll buy a 20" monitor and one of these the day it comes out. I'll buy a second one and a projector as soon as possible afterwards.
This is going to be a much bigger deal than the iPod, and that's saying a lot.
You're crazy! Jobs just demoed a wireless replacement for a $5.00 cable that connects your computer to your TV. If you think this will change everything you're nuts!
First off Apple still has not managed to get much video content for their iTunes store.
Second, Apple has yet to supply any HD content.
Third, one of the biggest sources for high-speed broadband in the US is cable. So Apple isn't putting any cable company out of business anytime soon.
Fourth, Content providers like ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. will not make the content available to Apple until after it has been released to cable or over the air. Otherwise they will loose significant money from advertisers for exclusive airing rights content.
In otherwords, don't disconnect your cable, over-the-air antenna, or satellite antenna anytime soon.
ten-oak-druid
Apr 9, 04:46 AM
The delusion is this thread is hilarious. I'm seeing little casual gamers saying
LOL
You're such a big power gamer yourself...
LOL
You're such a big power gamer yourself...
rcm3
Sep 20, 12:40 AM
Woohoo a hard drive! :D
I wasn't planning on buying CenterStage, but the DVR functionality(?) would make it very appealing.
I hope that I can replace my Tivo with this. I'm sick of paying monthly fees for an outdated, overburdened, restrictive, and paternal computer.
I hope that the functionality of what spawns from iTV will allow for full use of data, ie. the ability to make high quality recordings and then manipulate them using a computer.
My Tivo has a DVD-burner. Its great but all I can do is copy the shows onto a disc. There is no ability to edit, remove commercials, change the file size... anything. I know that if I really wanted to mess with stuff I could get a dedicated media PC, but this iTV business has the potential to be as user-friendly as Tivo, but as functional as a computer and as cheap as a DVR.
I wasn't planning on buying CenterStage, but the DVR functionality(?) would make it very appealing.
I hope that I can replace my Tivo with this. I'm sick of paying monthly fees for an outdated, overburdened, restrictive, and paternal computer.
I hope that the functionality of what spawns from iTV will allow for full use of data, ie. the ability to make high quality recordings and then manipulate them using a computer.
My Tivo has a DVD-burner. Its great but all I can do is copy the shows onto a disc. There is no ability to edit, remove commercials, change the file size... anything. I know that if I really wanted to mess with stuff I could get a dedicated media PC, but this iTV business has the potential to be as user-friendly as Tivo, but as functional as a computer and as cheap as a DVR.
firewood
Apr 28, 06:20 PM
I want it to be like a PC, a Mac or a Laptop.
Why should Apple care what you want it to be like when they know what more people actually buy? More people purchased iPads last quarter than MacBooks or iMacs. And reports are the most of those iPad were used for exactly the same kinds of things that most PCs are actually used for.
Ya know, mainframe and minicomputer companies used to call personal computers toys, not real computers. How can it be a real computer without a punched card reader and a line printer?
The vast majority of those mainframe and minicomputer companies no longer exist.
Why should Apple care what you want it to be like when they know what more people actually buy? More people purchased iPads last quarter than MacBooks or iMacs. And reports are the most of those iPad were used for exactly the same kinds of things that most PCs are actually used for.
Ya know, mainframe and minicomputer companies used to call personal computers toys, not real computers. How can it be a real computer without a punched card reader and a line printer?
The vast majority of those mainframe and minicomputer companies no longer exist.
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