pdjudd
Oct 8, 11:30 AM
the reason this topic has gotten so long is due to the fact that most apple fans have no idea what they're talking about..
they love apple and they will defend it to the death, even when their argument has no logic..
Not alt all. I have yet to say that all. I don;t defend Apple to the death at all.
this has nothing to do with which product is better..
Actually, to a degree it is...
it's the simple fact that android will be available on a greater number of handsets compared to apple..
Yea, just like Microsoft did... whoops...
you guys need to look at the Microsoft vs Apple situation..
regardless of what you prefer or believe is a better product,
the one that makes software and licenses it out dominates the market share
Thats not how MS got big. Not at all. Look at the real history behind the situation and you learn that after MS was given a major foothold by IBM, they just leveraged one success to another along with enterprises taking the IBM approach that nobody could go wrong with what IBM chose - which was Microsoft. Lots of companies do that even on closed platforms. Heck, look at how successful RIM is and they control the whole widget. Yes they create a lot of handsets. Google creates no handsets - they don't have any control over the final product.
Microsoft taking an open hardware approach has very little to do with their success. Its a side affect. A coincidence. Look at the video game market for further proof. MS doesn't take the desktop approach with the X-box - they parleyed their gaming successes on Windows to ease developers onto a closed hardware device. Nintendo has done that for years with their franchise characters. You cannot get a more closed ecosystem than Video games - and they are continuously successful. Even MS exploits closed ecosystems and they are finally making a profit (they would have earlier if they could have released a hardware system that wasn't so defective).
you really must have a thick skull not to understand that..
Insulting people does not help your case.
they love apple and they will defend it to the death, even when their argument has no logic..
Not alt all. I have yet to say that all. I don;t defend Apple to the death at all.
this has nothing to do with which product is better..
Actually, to a degree it is...
it's the simple fact that android will be available on a greater number of handsets compared to apple..
Yea, just like Microsoft did... whoops...
you guys need to look at the Microsoft vs Apple situation..
regardless of what you prefer or believe is a better product,
the one that makes software and licenses it out dominates the market share
Thats not how MS got big. Not at all. Look at the real history behind the situation and you learn that after MS was given a major foothold by IBM, they just leveraged one success to another along with enterprises taking the IBM approach that nobody could go wrong with what IBM chose - which was Microsoft. Lots of companies do that even on closed platforms. Heck, look at how successful RIM is and they control the whole widget. Yes they create a lot of handsets. Google creates no handsets - they don't have any control over the final product.
Microsoft taking an open hardware approach has very little to do with their success. Its a side affect. A coincidence. Look at the video game market for further proof. MS doesn't take the desktop approach with the X-box - they parleyed their gaming successes on Windows to ease developers onto a closed hardware device. Nintendo has done that for years with their franchise characters. You cannot get a more closed ecosystem than Video games - and they are continuously successful. Even MS exploits closed ecosystems and they are finally making a profit (they would have earlier if they could have released a hardware system that wasn't so defective).
you really must have a thick skull not to understand that..
Insulting people does not help your case.
bedifferent
May 2, 04:18 PM
Bravo, this is the funniest post ever.
I bet there's a lot of fan bois with soiled underwear.
Could it be true? Their perfect computers now quite vulnerable.
Ya gotta love it...the slap of reality :) :) :)
…and in come the Engadget trolls… ;)
Reality check is that I make 75% of my part-time communications and IT work from Windows based systems, fixing errors, virus removal, bloatware, instaling third party software such as mail, photo and calendar apps (Office), configuring their WLAN to work properly, et al.
My OS X work, mostly teaching people how to use OS X (Apple's One on One but without the noise and lack of experience from minimum wage "Creatives"). Funny how the switchers fall in love with OS X and never switch back to Windows.
Not knocking it, I got W7 on one of my 6-Core Mac Pro SATA bays and it runs amazingly. Of course, some of this is due to the hardware and drivers supplied by Apple, making it seamless as opposed to writing code for a myriad of hardware profiles…
Bottom line, both are good, but Windows would be better following Apple's lead in producing the hardware with the product, ensuring less compatibility issue and adopting EFI (Bios? REALLY?). Course this would mean millions of large businesses reinvesting in MS built hardware, and with MS's product quality/industrial design, I'm not betting on it...
I bet there's a lot of fan bois with soiled underwear.
Could it be true? Their perfect computers now quite vulnerable.
Ya gotta love it...the slap of reality :) :) :)
…and in come the Engadget trolls… ;)
Reality check is that I make 75% of my part-time communications and IT work from Windows based systems, fixing errors, virus removal, bloatware, instaling third party software such as mail, photo and calendar apps (Office), configuring their WLAN to work properly, et al.
My OS X work, mostly teaching people how to use OS X (Apple's One on One but without the noise and lack of experience from minimum wage "Creatives"). Funny how the switchers fall in love with OS X and never switch back to Windows.
Not knocking it, I got W7 on one of my 6-Core Mac Pro SATA bays and it runs amazingly. Of course, some of this is due to the hardware and drivers supplied by Apple, making it seamless as opposed to writing code for a myriad of hardware profiles…
Bottom line, both are good, but Windows would be better following Apple's lead in producing the hardware with the product, ensuring less compatibility issue and adopting EFI (Bios? REALLY?). Course this would mean millions of large businesses reinvesting in MS built hardware, and with MS's product quality/industrial design, I'm not betting on it...
iMattcotv
Apr 9, 09:29 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
I love how people are comparing an iOS device with a PS3 or Xbox..
Classic Chalk or Pen post.
I love how people are comparing an iOS device with a PS3 or Xbox..
Classic Chalk or Pen post.
Edge100
Apr 15, 11:52 AM
I feel sad at how many of you are totally distorting the message of Christ. The real blame goes on those who use his name to sully his very purpose. Those false Christians make me sick.
I agree. People should focus exclusively on the New Testament, where hateful behaviour is unequivocally denounced.
Take slavery, for instance. If ever there was a hateful action that we call all be united against, it's slavery. Good thing the NT takes a firm stance against slavery...
ohh.... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1pet/2.html#18)
damn... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/6.html#1)
it doesn't... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/col/3.html#22)
We should also commend Jesus himself, for taking such a firm stance against the horrors of the Old Testament...
wait... (http://bible.cc/matthew/5-18.htm)
that's not correct... (http://bible.cc/luke/16-17.htm)
I agree. People should focus exclusively on the New Testament, where hateful behaviour is unequivocally denounced.
Take slavery, for instance. If ever there was a hateful action that we call all be united against, it's slavery. Good thing the NT takes a firm stance against slavery...
ohh.... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1pet/2.html#18)
damn... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/6.html#1)
it doesn't... (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/col/3.html#22)
We should also commend Jesus himself, for taking such a firm stance against the horrors of the Old Testament...
wait... (http://bible.cc/matthew/5-18.htm)
that's not correct... (http://bible.cc/luke/16-17.htm)
Max(IT)
Apr 21, 05:33 AM
Except for the inferior interface, battery life, apps and usability you mean.. Otherwise they are exactly the same!
Lol ...
Exactly :D
So wait, you don't own a Mac or an iDevice but you post here constantly?
Eheheh, he's not the only one.
There is a specific term to define people like him on a forum ;)
Lol ...
Exactly :D
So wait, you don't own a Mac or an iDevice but you post here constantly?
Eheheh, he's not the only one.
There is a specific term to define people like him on a forum ;)
dante@sisna.com
Oct 26, 03:27 AM
OK. I know that many of my apps aren't going to take advantage of this level of multithreaded power, but I can't help but get excited by this development. After so many years of sluggish improvement, it feels like we're in the midst of rapid (and radical) change.
I'm hoping that the 8-core, 3.0 (or faster) GHz MacPro arrives the same day as Leopard and about the same time as CS3. I'd gladly swap my 2.66 GHz quad core...:)
Many of the applications that graphics, audio, and video producers use do take advantage of the extra power. It just happens differently than one might think -- it has via better multitasking. It is up to the user to learn how to use quad and eight core boxes to improve production.
We've been learning this technique for the past year with PowerMac Quad Core and are blown away by how much more work we accomplish.
DJO
I'm hoping that the 8-core, 3.0 (or faster) GHz MacPro arrives the same day as Leopard and about the same time as CS3. I'd gladly swap my 2.66 GHz quad core...:)
Many of the applications that graphics, audio, and video producers use do take advantage of the extra power. It just happens differently than one might think -- it has via better multitasking. It is up to the user to learn how to use quad and eight core boxes to improve production.
We've been learning this technique for the past year with PowerMac Quad Core and are blown away by how much more work we accomplish.
DJO
sblasl
Oct 28, 06:16 PM
What's your best price on that puppy? I've been wanting to do that for a while. But my 500GB boot drive is almost full all the time. ;)
Wish they made a 500GB Raptor. :p
Right now newegg.com has them at $229.99 with a $30.00 rebate. Must be purchased by October 31, 2006. That makes it $199.99. I've paid more for less in my life time.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136011
On my current G5, my boot drive is a striped raid with the following:
2 - SEAGATE ST336607LW 10,000 RPM drives, for speeds up to 320MB/s
1 - ATTO,ExpressPCIProUL4D
http://www.attotech.com/ultra4s.html
1 - Granite Digital SCSIVue Custom RAID Case #3300 w/ Granite Digital SCSI VueTeflon Gold Diagnostic Ultra Cable #6960
http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg03_cases.htm
http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg09_xtcables.htm
The raid gives me 68.1 GB of storage. I boot from this drive and have all of my applications on it. Storage for all music, videos, & pictures are kept on 2 - Maxtor 7Y250M0 250 GB drives that are internal.
I have been spoiled with this setup but unfortunately, when I move to the Mac Pro I won't be able to use the SCSI setup.
If anyone wants to buy this setup let me know.
Wish they made a 500GB Raptor. :p
Right now newegg.com has them at $229.99 with a $30.00 rebate. Must be purchased by October 31, 2006. That makes it $199.99. I've paid more for less in my life time.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822136011
On my current G5, my boot drive is a striped raid with the following:
2 - SEAGATE ST336607LW 10,000 RPM drives, for speeds up to 320MB/s
1 - ATTO,ExpressPCIProUL4D
http://www.attotech.com/ultra4s.html
1 - Granite Digital SCSIVue Custom RAID Case #3300 w/ Granite Digital SCSI VueTeflon Gold Diagnostic Ultra Cable #6960
http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg03_cases.htm
http://granitedigital.com/catalog/pg09_xtcables.htm
The raid gives me 68.1 GB of storage. I boot from this drive and have all of my applications on it. Storage for all music, videos, & pictures are kept on 2 - Maxtor 7Y250M0 250 GB drives that are internal.
I have been spoiled with this setup but unfortunately, when I move to the Mac Pro I won't be able to use the SCSI setup.
If anyone wants to buy this setup let me know.
digitalbiker
Sep 24, 05:38 PM
It most certainly is not of some souped up Airport Extreme. That was what was widely rumoured before the Showtime presentation, and it turned out to be completely false. Whatever the debate of the precise capabilities of the iTV may be, the device demo'd couldn't be further from being an Airport Extreme if it tried.
OK, believe what you want but you must be watching a different ShowTime presentation and reading different reviews than I have been reading. Your discription is just not factual.
Everything I have seen describes the iTV as a souped up airport extreme that uses FrontRow to remote control an iTunes streaming device (i.e. computer) on the network. The product fits nicely in the model SJ has of a computer centric universe or digital hub. The use of the hard drive is most likely for cache to buffer the stream on an unstable 80211 connection.
OK, believe what you want but you must be watching a different ShowTime presentation and reading different reviews than I have been reading. Your discription is just not factual.
Everything I have seen describes the iTV as a souped up airport extreme that uses FrontRow to remote control an iTunes streaming device (i.e. computer) on the network. The product fits nicely in the model SJ has of a computer centric universe or digital hub. The use of the hard drive is most likely for cache to buffer the stream on an unstable 80211 connection.
Shivetya
Apr 15, 11:49 AM
I have a couple problems with this approach. There's so much attention brought to this issue of specifically gay bullying that it's hard to see this outside of the framework of identity politics.
Where's the videos and support for fat kids being bullied? Aren't they suicidal, too, or are we saying here that gays have a particular emotional defect and weakness? They're not strong enough to tough this out? Is that the image the gay community wants to promote?
Because some groups want to convince the world they are better victims than other groups. Because some groups see more importance in who you are than what you suffered.
Where's the videos and support for fat kids being bullied? Aren't they suicidal, too, or are we saying here that gays have a particular emotional defect and weakness? They're not strong enough to tough this out? Is that the image the gay community wants to promote?
Because some groups want to convince the world they are better victims than other groups. Because some groups see more importance in who you are than what you suffered.
nixd2001
Oct 8, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by javajedi
3.) You speak of flaws of the "x86 architecture" but do not provide us specifics as to why you say this.
The floating point instruction set architecture of the x86 (silly stack based thing) is/was a naff design decision. I don't even know whether there are alternative routes to accessing FP ops on an x86 these days, as its ages since I've been interested in that level (tad of compiler writing in my history). [Intel did always work pretty hard to get IEEE FP conformance though, which is more than most other CPU mnfs.]
The limited number of GPRs is also a design flaw that has largely been worked around.
Maybe the best way to get an understanding of what Intel privately thinks is good/bad about x86 ISA is to look at what sorts of x86 instructions get translated into what sort of micro-ops internally - the larger the change, the less Intel like their original decisions.
3.) You speak of flaws of the "x86 architecture" but do not provide us specifics as to why you say this.
The floating point instruction set architecture of the x86 (silly stack based thing) is/was a naff design decision. I don't even know whether there are alternative routes to accessing FP ops on an x86 these days, as its ages since I've been interested in that level (tad of compiler writing in my history). [Intel did always work pretty hard to get IEEE FP conformance though, which is more than most other CPU mnfs.]
The limited number of GPRs is also a design flaw that has largely been worked around.
Maybe the best way to get an understanding of what Intel privately thinks is good/bad about x86 ISA is to look at what sorts of x86 instructions get translated into what sort of micro-ops internally - the larger the change, the less Intel like their original decisions.
ldburroughs
Mar 18, 12:29 PM
I wonder how long it'll be until Apple comes up with a fix for this?
iTunes SP2??? I kid, I kid.
iTunes SP2??? I kid, I kid.
dethmaShine
May 2, 09:13 AM
Actually there's been malware for OS X since it was introduced. There is malware for every operating system.
Nothing can defend against user stupidity.
Well, that's true.
Thanks for correcting me.
Nothing can defend against user stupidity.
Well, that's true.
Thanks for correcting me.
Young Spade
Apr 21, 12:04 AM
I received my refurb iPad 1 yesterday and was very impressed with how Apple packages their refurbs. Nice!
Went into the Apple store last night to buy a case for the iPad and was ONCE AGAIN drawn to the MacBook Air. Beautiful machine.
Ahhhh, maybe someday... maybe someday. :)
Haha yea I was actually planning on getting one as my first Mac but couldn't at the moment because I didn't have enough cash on hand and would have to wait until the summer. Lo and behold that same day while surfing another forum site, someone was selling their BlackBook which was upgraded for a very good price and I ended up snagging it that night.
Good times.
Went into the Apple store last night to buy a case for the iPad and was ONCE AGAIN drawn to the MacBook Air. Beautiful machine.
Ahhhh, maybe someday... maybe someday. :)
Haha yea I was actually planning on getting one as my first Mac but couldn't at the moment because I didn't have enough cash on hand and would have to wait until the summer. Lo and behold that same day while surfing another forum site, someone was selling their BlackBook which was upgraded for a very good price and I ended up snagging it that night.
Good times.
Mac'nCheese
Apr 23, 10:57 PM
Ugh, so much ignorance (hopefully unintentional), I don't know where to start...
Nice. You've proven my point with that one statement. Congratulations, you are my first I & R.
Nice. You've proven my point with that one statement. Congratulations, you are my first I & R.
furqan8421
Apr 9, 10:58 AM
Why are people being defensive and bringing up a few examples like final fantasy 3? These games are not the norm. Look at the top downloads list in the app store to get a good idea of what most games are.
iOS games are fine, but the majority of them really are time wasters. The only real advantage most iOS games have is that they are much cheaper than on portable systems or console games.
For most popular games though the experience isn't nearly good enough. The most popular games on consoles are FPS, Racing games, and Sports. Without physical buttons iOS can't compete with the same genres of games. iOS is better at puzzle games where touching is preferable to moving a mouse/controller, and can be fine on RPG games especially if they are turn based.
Real racing can be fun, but enthusiasts buy steering wheels to play gran turismo and forza. It's just not the same.
iOS games are fine, but the majority of them really are time wasters. The only real advantage most iOS games have is that they are much cheaper than on portable systems or console games.
For most popular games though the experience isn't nearly good enough. The most popular games on consoles are FPS, Racing games, and Sports. Without physical buttons iOS can't compete with the same genres of games. iOS is better at puzzle games where touching is preferable to moving a mouse/controller, and can be fine on RPG games especially if they are turn based.
Real racing can be fun, but enthusiasts buy steering wheels to play gran turismo and forza. It's just not the same.
Bill McEnaney
Apr 23, 04:24 PM
You have to step back, in order to see the big picture.
He could be standing in the middle of the Andromeda galaxy, and it would be of no value.
So, all biblical days are Solar days?
Perhaps God goes by a much longer passage of time for His days. ;)
The point is that the word "day" is vague. Time measures change. But St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, and Boethius believe that God is unchanging and unchangeable. Say they're right. Then the Bible is brimming with metaphors about him that many scientific atheists misinterpret when they take literally. Bible interpretation is much harder than many people think.
He could be standing in the middle of the Andromeda galaxy, and it would be of no value.
So, all biblical days are Solar days?
Perhaps God goes by a much longer passage of time for His days. ;)
The point is that the word "day" is vague. Time measures change. But St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, and Boethius believe that God is unchanging and unchangeable. Say they're right. Then the Bible is brimming with metaphors about him that many scientific atheists misinterpret when they take literally. Bible interpretation is much harder than many people think.
Multimedia
Nov 3, 11:32 AM
Anyone hear of Apple going the opposite direction with the Xeon.
i.e. how about a single dual-core?To be more clear...
Mac Pro with 1 dualcore Xeon?
A whole line of Mac Pro's then
2 cores
4 cores
8 coresSingle Dual Core is out of the question. We're way past wanting-needing less than 4-cores. Xeon are made to be used in pairs. What you probably mean is discussed above - a single 4-core Kentsfield processor (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3014347&postcount=239) in a Conroe motherboard. Some of us hope that will be a sub $2k offering next year.
More like:
4 cores 2006
8 cores 2007
16 cores 2008
32 cores 2009
64 cores 2010
i.e. how about a single dual-core?To be more clear...
Mac Pro with 1 dualcore Xeon?
A whole line of Mac Pro's then
2 cores
4 cores
8 coresSingle Dual Core is out of the question. We're way past wanting-needing less than 4-cores. Xeon are made to be used in pairs. What you probably mean is discussed above - a single 4-core Kentsfield processor (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3014347&postcount=239) in a Conroe motherboard. Some of us hope that will be a sub $2k offering next year.
More like:
4 cores 2006
8 cores 2007
16 cores 2008
32 cores 2009
64 cores 2010
Evangelion
Jul 12, 01:45 AM
The new Powermac or Pro Mac, seems to be a nice machine. It will be interesting to see how much faster than the quad G5.
The big question is.
Would any professional that depends on Adobe apps going to buy this machine right away?
Why the obsession with Adobe? There are other companies out there as well.
The big question is.
Would any professional that depends on Adobe apps going to buy this machine right away?
Why the obsession with Adobe? There are other companies out there as well.
edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 05:37 PM
If I even dare comment on the last thing, the thread topic will change.
I think it's a bit late to worry about that :D
I think it's a bit late to worry about that :D
javajedi
Oct 12, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by ddtlm
Anyway I've had my fun here for now. I think it is settled that the G4 does poorly at this particular float test. I've done everything I can think of and gone though all sorts of variations of the loop trying to increase the IPC but I could never make significant headway on either the PC or the Mac.
That said, this test is essentialy a test where we do 400000000 double precision square roots which we don't even store and nothing else. There are no memory access, only very predictable branches. I have radically changed the loop and compiler flags and essentially nothing besides the sqrt() makes any difference.
I do not regard this test as important in the overall picture. It does not illustrate anything important to anyone, unless someone sits around doing square roots all day.
I might also add that designing a meaningful benchmark is very hard. I think SPEC is about as good as it gets, and yes the G4 looses in floats there too. :)
I'm in the process of figuring out vMathLib. I'm a Java guy, so all this Altivec stuff looks totally foreign to me :(
Never the less, once I get it working, I'll share the results with you folks.
Also: If anyone here wants me to try something, G3 vs G4, or whatever, aside from the square root and integer mult, let me know. I'd actually like to make full featured cocoa app full of test suites.
Anyway I've had my fun here for now. I think it is settled that the G4 does poorly at this particular float test. I've done everything I can think of and gone though all sorts of variations of the loop trying to increase the IPC but I could never make significant headway on either the PC or the Mac.
That said, this test is essentialy a test where we do 400000000 double precision square roots which we don't even store and nothing else. There are no memory access, only very predictable branches. I have radically changed the loop and compiler flags and essentially nothing besides the sqrt() makes any difference.
I do not regard this test as important in the overall picture. It does not illustrate anything important to anyone, unless someone sits around doing square roots all day.
I might also add that designing a meaningful benchmark is very hard. I think SPEC is about as good as it gets, and yes the G4 looses in floats there too. :)
I'm in the process of figuring out vMathLib. I'm a Java guy, so all this Altivec stuff looks totally foreign to me :(
Never the less, once I get it working, I'll share the results with you folks.
Also: If anyone here wants me to try something, G3 vs G4, or whatever, aside from the square root and integer mult, let me know. I'd actually like to make full featured cocoa app full of test suites.
Pants
Oct 9, 04:18 AM
Ive been using xp pro for 3 months here at work, and I have to say I'm quietly impressed. Its never crashed, nothing has unepectedly quit (and its running a bunch of custom pci cards, so if ever it was flakey, id have expected it to be so with this rig...). My only complaint is the 'look' of it - osX does look nicer, but then osX is a lot less snappy.
So where does my money go to with Apple? I posses a bunch of apples, and each time I buy a new one i feel a little less 'happy' and a little more like a regular consumer. After all, the days of non proprietory hardware being used in apples are gone - its all usb and firewire (and not even cutting edge usb at that). Some of my reasons for disliking M$ are also beginning to surface with appl� - .mac for a start. What osX has done is open my eyes to using linux at home (or maybe x86 solaris) ...switching? hmmm....
oh, and did anyone mention that apples floating point performance was good? no - its awful!
So where does my money go to with Apple? I posses a bunch of apples, and each time I buy a new one i feel a little less 'happy' and a little more like a regular consumer. After all, the days of non proprietory hardware being used in apples are gone - its all usb and firewire (and not even cutting edge usb at that). Some of my reasons for disliking M$ are also beginning to surface with appl� - .mac for a start. What osX has done is open my eyes to using linux at home (or maybe x86 solaris) ...switching? hmmm....
oh, and did anyone mention that apples floating point performance was good? no - its awful!
Krevnik
Apr 15, 10:08 AM
I'm not against the message of encouraging people to reach out for help in a time of need, or helping those under the stress of bullying to realize that it gets better. Though, I am curious why a commercial company is attaching itself to a particular community? If Apple participated in a video that supported a community of people believing that marriage should be between only a man and a woman, the LGBT community would be outraged. Why alienate customers that may have strong opinions on the subject, no matter which side they're on?
First off, these aren't just Apple employees. These are LGBT Apple employees. They are reaching out to kids in a similar situation and saying "you are not alone!"
This isn't about politics, or encouraging a lifestyle or anything that dramatic. It is about giving that little bit of support and being able to say "hold on, you aren't alone, it gets better."
Sure it might alienate those who believe it is a sin, but this isn't a salvo in the marriage debate. Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to stand up and support what you believe is the right thing to do, even if it alienates you. Civil rights work over the last couple hundred years included people who weren't slaves, weren't black, and risked alienating themselves in the eyes of their peers for what they saw was the right thing. Can we dismiss their contribution for the reason that they shouldn't have done it? Should businesses, who we complain are too amoral, back down on an issue when they show a bit of morality and backbone because it might alienate customers?
Blast em for being on the wrong side of the debate, but I don't see why taking a moral stand of even a watered down variety is such a problem. This company has already done far more in this area, such as officially voicing itself against Prop 8.
First off, these aren't just Apple employees. These are LGBT Apple employees. They are reaching out to kids in a similar situation and saying "you are not alone!"
This isn't about politics, or encouraging a lifestyle or anything that dramatic. It is about giving that little bit of support and being able to say "hold on, you aren't alone, it gets better."
Sure it might alienate those who believe it is a sin, but this isn't a salvo in the marriage debate. Sometimes, just sometimes, you have to stand up and support what you believe is the right thing to do, even if it alienates you. Civil rights work over the last couple hundred years included people who weren't slaves, weren't black, and risked alienating themselves in the eyes of their peers for what they saw was the right thing. Can we dismiss their contribution for the reason that they shouldn't have done it? Should businesses, who we complain are too amoral, back down on an issue when they show a bit of morality and backbone because it might alienate customers?
Blast em for being on the wrong side of the debate, but I don't see why taking a moral stand of even a watered down variety is such a problem. This company has already done far more in this area, such as officially voicing itself against Prop 8.
bugfaceuk
Apr 9, 11:13 AM
Do you think the market can sustain four gaming companies?
Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Apple? What if Google gets into the mix too? (They fumbled with Google TV, but it could be adapted and done properly.)
I think Nintendo represents the "Casual" side of gaming, both with the DS line and the Wii. Nintendo dominated portables for many years. Since the launch of the original Gameboy, no one could really challenge Nintendo's dominance.
But now, there are two new ways to enjoy portable gaming... Android and iOS.
Just as Radio is still around after Television, it's possible that Nintendo can survive Apple's entry into gaming. Yet, will Nintendo be the dominate player? In what scenario do they stay #1? If iOS is real competition in portable gaming (DS line) and in home gaming (Wii) is threatened by Apple TV / iPad, I think that looks like there are some real challenges ahead for Nintendo.
The 3DS is a surprise to me, as it's fairly expensive for a Nintendo portable. Why spend $250 on a 3DS when an iPod Touch starts at $229? Sure... it depends on your preferences, but the iPod Touch / iPhone is a successful alternative. This isn't the same battle the Gameboy faced against the Sega's Nomad / Game Gear, the Turbo Express Portable or Atari Lynx. In addition to hardware, the software can be cheaper on iOS / Android too.
Game ratings on iOS start at 4 and up.
Games for the 3DS start at 7 and up. It's harder to market a product when there are warnings about vision.
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/3ds/en_na/health_safety.jsp
What happens this Christmas if Apple decides to launch an Apple TV that plays games... for $99? In these tough economic times, I think that's a serious threat to Nintendo.
So, Nintendo's portable line is under attack... both from Sony/Android and now Apple. Nintendo's console market is also under attack, as the Wii appears to be losing steam. If Apple enters the market with a $100 system, that's serious competition.
Here's a story... I was asked to make a recommendation for a gift. This was a nice gift, something around $250. At first I looked at the Nintendo 3DS. I thought it would be a cool gift because it was new. Yet, there was a regional lockout issue and I'm not sure it's something that's really good for a kid. At least with an iPod Touch, there's more to do with it than just games. Sure... the Nintendo 3DS does more than just games, but I think that the iPod Touch is a much better overall device... FaceTime, web browsing, iOS development, books, utilities, entertainment. It says, "Hey, I want you to have fun... but I also want you to learn something and be productive."
I recommended the iPod Touch. But surprisingly, this was not the gift that was purchased. Instead, an Android tablet was purchased as the gift. Heh... Android... that would not have been my choice.
Yet, that's the changing market. With iOS and Android, there's a lot more competition in portable devices... and I think that will eventually spill into the livingroom with game consoles. It's new technology that threatens Nintendo.
I think the strength of Nintendo is their software line... Mario, Zelda and popular games like that. If Nintendo struggles with hardware, they could eventually become software exclusive. That doomsday scenario has been uttered for many years � as Sony's entry into the market caused a lot of trouble for Nintendo. The company managed to turn things around with the DS and the Wii. Can Nintendo do it again when Apple is offering cheaper hardware, cheaper software?
One could argue about iOS games being mostly casual... and that the lack of a controller causes problems... but Apple can fix that problem if they so choose. With Game Center, and news like the one that started this thread, it shows that Apple is getting serious about gaming.
That's obviously big trouble for Nintendo.
I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft and Apple? What if Google gets into the mix too? (They fumbled with Google TV, but it could be adapted and done properly.)
I think Nintendo represents the "Casual" side of gaming, both with the DS line and the Wii. Nintendo dominated portables for many years. Since the launch of the original Gameboy, no one could really challenge Nintendo's dominance.
But now, there are two new ways to enjoy portable gaming... Android and iOS.
Just as Radio is still around after Television, it's possible that Nintendo can survive Apple's entry into gaming. Yet, will Nintendo be the dominate player? In what scenario do they stay #1? If iOS is real competition in portable gaming (DS line) and in home gaming (Wii) is threatened by Apple TV / iPad, I think that looks like there are some real challenges ahead for Nintendo.
The 3DS is a surprise to me, as it's fairly expensive for a Nintendo portable. Why spend $250 on a 3DS when an iPod Touch starts at $229? Sure... it depends on your preferences, but the iPod Touch / iPhone is a successful alternative. This isn't the same battle the Gameboy faced against the Sega's Nomad / Game Gear, the Turbo Express Portable or Atari Lynx. In addition to hardware, the software can be cheaper on iOS / Android too.
Game ratings on iOS start at 4 and up.
Games for the 3DS start at 7 and up. It's harder to market a product when there are warnings about vision.
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/3ds/en_na/health_safety.jsp
What happens this Christmas if Apple decides to launch an Apple TV that plays games... for $99? In these tough economic times, I think that's a serious threat to Nintendo.
So, Nintendo's portable line is under attack... both from Sony/Android and now Apple. Nintendo's console market is also under attack, as the Wii appears to be losing steam. If Apple enters the market with a $100 system, that's serious competition.
Here's a story... I was asked to make a recommendation for a gift. This was a nice gift, something around $250. At first I looked at the Nintendo 3DS. I thought it would be a cool gift because it was new. Yet, there was a regional lockout issue and I'm not sure it's something that's really good for a kid. At least with an iPod Touch, there's more to do with it than just games. Sure... the Nintendo 3DS does more than just games, but I think that the iPod Touch is a much better overall device... FaceTime, web browsing, iOS development, books, utilities, entertainment. It says, "Hey, I want you to have fun... but I also want you to learn something and be productive."
I recommended the iPod Touch. But surprisingly, this was not the gift that was purchased. Instead, an Android tablet was purchased as the gift. Heh... Android... that would not have been my choice.
Yet, that's the changing market. With iOS and Android, there's a lot more competition in portable devices... and I think that will eventually spill into the livingroom with game consoles. It's new technology that threatens Nintendo.
I think the strength of Nintendo is their software line... Mario, Zelda and popular games like that. If Nintendo struggles with hardware, they could eventually become software exclusive. That doomsday scenario has been uttered for many years � as Sony's entry into the market caused a lot of trouble for Nintendo. The company managed to turn things around with the DS and the Wii. Can Nintendo do it again when Apple is offering cheaper hardware, cheaper software?
One could argue about iOS games being mostly casual... and that the lack of a controller causes problems... but Apple can fix that problem if they so choose. With Game Center, and news like the one that started this thread, it shows that Apple is getting serious about gaming.
That's obviously big trouble for Nintendo.
I do think the market can sustain 4 companies, perhaps even especially the casual market which is significantly larger. I would challenge you to answer why you think the smaller top-end console market can sustain 2 large players, but the broader casual market could not?
grubesteak
Sep 26, 12:29 AM
What incentive does anyone ever have to buy if they keep announcing new chips? I'm all for the advancement of new technology, but I'm not forking over any money just yet.
Seems like there's a new "just around the corner" press release/rumor every other week.
Seems like there's a new "just around the corner" press release/rumor every other week.
0 comments:
Post a Comment