relimw
Sep 13, 12:36 PM
How much more 'blind' do you want it? All the programmer has to do at this point is use multiple threads. Even if they don't, multiple cores will be automatically used for system and other processes.
Splitting one thread so that it ran cocurent with itself is a recipie for massive trouble. Mac OS X is about as blind as any system out there for the programmer. There may be some more optimizations that the system could make in it's own handling of multiprocessing, but from a programmer's perspective it doesn't matter how many cores the system has. (Unless you really want it to.)
Programming in pthreads is a bear (at least to me) an easier method would be nice. However, when I was looking up something today I came across OpenMP (http://www.openmp.org/) which seems to greatly simply setting up threads and the like. I suppose I was just thinking of run-time parallelization.
Splitting one thread so that it ran cocurent with itself is a recipie for massive trouble. Mac OS X is about as blind as any system out there for the programmer. There may be some more optimizations that the system could make in it's own handling of multiprocessing, but from a programmer's perspective it doesn't matter how many cores the system has. (Unless you really want it to.)
Programming in pthreads is a bear (at least to me) an easier method would be nice. However, when I was looking up something today I came across OpenMP (http://www.openmp.org/) which seems to greatly simply setting up threads and the like. I suppose I was just thinking of run-time parallelization.
intlplby
Nov 28, 09:53 PM
i would love if the government changed the royalty law to extend only to the artists and not the record companies.....
i.e. "okay, we'll extend the copyright to 50 years or the life of the artist, but the catch is that only the artists gets the royalties"
i'd love to see the big record companies cut out.....
it's totally possible for artists to get more and for us to pay less.....
i'd include the mastering technician in there too.... they are very important as well
i.e. "okay, we'll extend the copyright to 50 years or the life of the artist, but the catch is that only the artists gets the royalties"
i'd love to see the big record companies cut out.....
it's totally possible for artists to get more and for us to pay less.....
i'd include the mastering technician in there too.... they are very important as well
nwcs
Apr 10, 07:40 AM
Oh boo hoo about the companies being "booted" from sponsorships. The company I work for goes to trade shows. The time invested is actually quite small and most of the materials are in inventory anyway. The presentations are usually based on the same script. I bet the companies aren't that disappointed. In fact they would like to be there and see what Apple is up to more than anyone else. So I bet they'll send the same presenter staff there to view and record anything of note to send back to their company.
Businesses deal with things by contract and those contracts have terms and conditions. No company would just break a contract so I'm sure everything wad handled quite smoothly behind the scenes. So I think this idea that Apple bullied or pushed people is silly.
Businesses deal with things by contract and those contracts have terms and conditions. No company would just break a contract so I'm sure everything wad handled quite smoothly behind the scenes. So I think this idea that Apple bullied or pushed people is silly.
Island Dog
Aug 25, 08:24 PM
Right. Because the whole "if your battery's serial number falls within this range, this range, or this range" concept was so terribly difficult to grasp.
Yep. My serial falls into the range and the website still won't accept it. I guess I will have to sit on hold Monday morning.
Yep. My serial falls into the range and the website still won't accept it. I guess I will have to sit on hold Monday morning.
ccrandall77
Aug 11, 01:47 PM
Well, to be fair, your radio ROM/software can have some effect on your reception, and different companies release different radio software at different times, and that can have some effect.
My 8125 has a t-mobile radio ROM, but I run it on cingular. There are a few wrinkles in that, but you are generally correct.
You are correct. With my testing, I used an unlocked Nokia 6620 (originally from Cingular) with both T-Mo and Cingular SIMs. Also did the same with a SE T610 (unlocked, but originally T-Mo). In both cases, I found Cingular's service (NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!) much better.
My 8125 has a t-mobile radio ROM, but I run it on cingular. There are a few wrinkles in that, but you are generally correct.
You are correct. With my testing, I used an unlocked Nokia 6620 (originally from Cingular) with both T-Mo and Cingular SIMs. Also did the same with a SE T610 (unlocked, but originally T-Mo). In both cases, I found Cingular's service (NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!) much better.
Rooskibar03
Apr 11, 01:06 PM
Guess this isn't as bad as I would like it to be. ATT moved my upgrade date to 12/3 after I lowered my pricing plan.
Bummer.
Bummer.
NebulaClash
Apr 6, 01:31 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)
Motorola doesn't "get" tablets yet, but the G1 didn't sell well either. Let's look at the market again in two years, I bet it'll look a lot different.
In two years the iPad 4 will be trouncing whatever tablets are trying to top the year-old iPad 3s.
Motorola doesn't "get" tablets yet, but the G1 didn't sell well either. Let's look at the market again in two years, I bet it'll look a lot different.
In two years the iPad 4 will be trouncing whatever tablets are trying to top the year-old iPad 3s.
jiggie2g
Jul 15, 01:08 PM
The only reason I see Apple going all Woodcrest is to justify their high markups , while insulting you Mac Loyalist on price they also offer you less performance for your money.
Look here at the current woody pricing at Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001157+2010340343+1050922423&Subcategory=343&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=
So apple is going to charge you guys $1799 for a Desktop with a 2.0ghz CPU , when everyone else will charge $1199 for a Conroe E6600 2.4ghz based desktop.
This is not looking good apple.
Look here at the current woody pricing at Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=50001157+2010340343+1050922423&Subcategory=343&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=
So apple is going to charge you guys $1799 for a Desktop with a 2.0ghz CPU , when everyone else will charge $1199 for a Conroe E6600 2.4ghz based desktop.
This is not looking good apple.
Half Glass
Sep 14, 12:49 PM
Well, if you can't find evidence of Windows running on well on machine with >2 processors, or of the significant low-level changes Microsoft have made to ensure it does, you aren't looking very hard.
Agreed.
Don't forget the new MacPros where XP runs very well (minus the MB chipset/SATA issue where there is a workaround.) It recognizes all four cores and seems very stable.
--HG
Agreed.
Don't forget the new MacPros where XP runs very well (minus the MB chipset/SATA issue where there is a workaround.) It recognizes all four cores and seems very stable.
--HG
mBox
Apr 8, 11:19 PM
Careful, some trolls will insist that your opinion is only relevant to your narrow world view and that you need itemized spreadsheets to prove that you know what you're talking about.The positive is that all the other mentioned apps are Apple capable :)
Huntn
Mar 18, 08:59 PM
Back in Ron Paul warned us about Barack Obama and the fact that his foreign policy would almost certainly essentially mirror that of the Democrats and Neo-Cons for the past 60 years.
I am very unhappy that Obama did not get us out of a state of War. Which pacifist do you plan on voting for this next time around?
I am very unhappy that Obama did not get us out of a state of War. Which pacifist do you plan on voting for this next time around?
dba7dba
Mar 31, 04:51 PM
You're comparing a phone or a tablet to U.S. foreign policy? I'm sorry, I don't think gadgets are as important as that but apparently you do. I think you need a check on your perspective.
How about
1. I don't care what neighbors say as long as I can work on my car and rev up the engine, even at midnight.
My point was 'I don't care what happens to others as long as I get what I want' is not good.
How about
1. I don't care what neighbors say as long as I can work on my car and rev up the engine, even at midnight.
My point was 'I don't care what happens to others as long as I get what I want' is not good.
gkp
Jun 17, 11:43 AM
I got to my local RS at 8am, nobody there, left and came back around 8:45, there were a few people there. The manager was on his cell phone listening to a conference call. After the call finished, he said that it was decided that they are NOT taking pre-orders, but only reservations. He took our names and info and said he would call later in the day with "Pin Numbers" that were assigned to their store. He also said that he could not reserve any iPhones in their system/computer until 10am. So, basically what happened is another store entered their reservations before the 10am assigned time and took up all the pin numbers for OUR area. (This cheating store is in Sacramento, Ca.)
So, later in the day, I called and the manager said that they could only hope for some iPhones to be sent to our store and if so, they would keep ours aside for us (first come, first serve). But, he said the likelyhood of this happening looks grim.
Why did Apple/RadioShack even bother? Even the manager told me the whole process was screwed up.
So, later in the day, I called and the manager said that they could only hope for some iPhones to be sent to our store and if so, they would keep ours aside for us (first come, first serve). But, he said the likelyhood of this happening looks grim.
Why did Apple/RadioShack even bother? Even the manager told me the whole process was screwed up.
NJRonbo
Jun 14, 09:26 AM
Just returned from Radio Shack.
I turned in my 32GB 3GS (with all accessories)
which was in almost excellent condition except
for a chip and a scratch and received a $247 credit.
They handed my SIMM card back to me so essentially
the phone is rendered useless.
That falls between what their website pays for
a pristine phone ($301) and a moderate wear ($226).
So, not bad, a $247 credit off of iPhone 4.
Radio Shack is taking preorders starting Thursday.
Essentially, they special order the phone for you.
That pretty much guarantees you a phone on opening day.
All you need to do is leave a $50 deposit when ordering.
They are not certain if they will have the phone
accessories or not.
I turned in my 32GB 3GS (with all accessories)
which was in almost excellent condition except
for a chip and a scratch and received a $247 credit.
They handed my SIMM card back to me so essentially
the phone is rendered useless.
That falls between what their website pays for
a pristine phone ($301) and a moderate wear ($226).
So, not bad, a $247 credit off of iPhone 4.
Radio Shack is taking preorders starting Thursday.
Essentially, they special order the phone for you.
That pretty much guarantees you a phone on opening day.
All you need to do is leave a $50 deposit when ordering.
They are not certain if they will have the phone
accessories or not.
ergle2
Sep 18, 11:57 PM
Key word being DESKTOPS.
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
I've known many people with multi-processor machines on their desktop, with a variety of processor families -- including Intel -- going way back over the best part of a decade. If your requirements include applications that can make use of it, it can make sense. Time is money and all that.
One market I'm aware of is the fluid dynamics market, which pretty much eats all the processor time you can throw at it.
I even had an x86 dual CPU machine at home back in 1999... I still have it, it's just not that fast any more...
Of course, these days everyone and his dog has dual-core, pretty much...
Edit: 2nd para clarified
MP machines were server based long before they were included in desktops. I'd like to see where people had dual Xeon based DESKTOPS 'cause I've never seen it. It's not impossible but it's also not a good cost-based answer either. :p
I've known many people with multi-processor machines on their desktop, with a variety of processor families -- including Intel -- going way back over the best part of a decade. If your requirements include applications that can make use of it, it can make sense. Time is money and all that.
One market I'm aware of is the fluid dynamics market, which pretty much eats all the processor time you can throw at it.
I even had an x86 dual CPU machine at home back in 1999... I still have it, it's just not that fast any more...
Of course, these days everyone and his dog has dual-core, pretty much...
Edit: 2nd para clarified
Multimedia
Jul 23, 05:14 PM
January - March 2007
..$999 - Dual 2.13 GHz One Conroe
$1399 - Dual 2.4 GHz One Conroe
$1699 - Dual 2.67 GHz One Conroe
$1999 - Quad 2.67 GHz One Kentsfield
$2499 - Quad 3.2 GHz One Kentsfield
$3499 or more for Mac OctoPod Fastest On EARTH - 8 x 3.2 GHz
Two Clovertown later One Yorkfield for less money.
This is all just a wild guestimate for discussion purposes. Please don't flame me.At those prices, sign me up for a Quad 2.3!!!! I'll buy that along with a newly designed 23" ACD for $699. :DYeah I can see that this is a January 2007 price list not this year. Sorry for the time warped confusion. :eek:
You can already buy a 24" Dell 1920 x 1200 display for only $799 from a dealer who buys and sells them in bulk on eBay.A Quad 2.3 for $1999 ... not going to happen.
Even a cheapest configuration of Dell Precision 490 Workstartion (http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/cs1page2.aspx?br=6&c=us&cs=04&fm=11456&kc=6W463&l=en&s=bsd) with dual 2.3 Woodcrests comes out to $2348. This includes 1GB RAM, 80GB SATA drive, and 128MB nVidia Quadro NVS 285 2D graphics.
Apple prices are typically a few hundred $ higher. I am guessing it will be more like $2699 with a larger hard drive and better graphics.Yes I realize that. I forgot to put the time frame on the original list. I agree with your assessment of the imminent offerings this summer.
..$999 - Dual 2.13 GHz One Conroe
$1399 - Dual 2.4 GHz One Conroe
$1699 - Dual 2.67 GHz One Conroe
$1999 - Quad 2.67 GHz One Kentsfield
$2499 - Quad 3.2 GHz One Kentsfield
$3499 or more for Mac OctoPod Fastest On EARTH - 8 x 3.2 GHz
Two Clovertown later One Yorkfield for less money.
This is all just a wild guestimate for discussion purposes. Please don't flame me.At those prices, sign me up for a Quad 2.3!!!! I'll buy that along with a newly designed 23" ACD for $699. :DYeah I can see that this is a January 2007 price list not this year. Sorry for the time warped confusion. :eek:
You can already buy a 24" Dell 1920 x 1200 display for only $799 from a dealer who buys and sells them in bulk on eBay.A Quad 2.3 for $1999 ... not going to happen.
Even a cheapest configuration of Dell Precision 490 Workstartion (http://catalog.us.dell.com/CS1/cs1page2.aspx?br=6&c=us&cs=04&fm=11456&kc=6W463&l=en&s=bsd) with dual 2.3 Woodcrests comes out to $2348. This includes 1GB RAM, 80GB SATA drive, and 128MB nVidia Quadro NVS 285 2D graphics.
Apple prices are typically a few hundred $ higher. I am guessing it will be more like $2699 with a larger hard drive and better graphics.Yes I realize that. I forgot to put the time frame on the original list. I agree with your assessment of the imminent offerings this summer.
milo
Sep 13, 07:05 AM
A bit pointless given that no software utilises the extra cores yet.
Not true, according to the article. They said it wasn't easy, but they were able to max out all 8 cores. You can see the Activity Monitor graph all filled up.
It would be nice if 10.5 would allow a more 'blind' method to utilize these cores, versus having programmers specificly program for multi-core. Now that would be extremely helpful and allow a more simultanous workflow.
That's how it is now, at least with multiple apps. I bet it's possible to program for an unspecified number of multiple cores, and there may be apps doing it already.
I was interested to see that they were unable to max out CPU utilization on all 8 cores in the system. I hope it's due to the software these days not being ready to fully utilize more than one or two cores and not due to OSX's ability to scale to larger core counts. Since that's obviously where we're heading. Does anyone know about the potential for scalability of OSX to large numbers of CPU's/cores? I know some *nix varieties and BSD varieties do this really well, but one wonders if they were thinking this far in the future when they developed OSX. It'll be interesting to see...
Read the article again, they WERE able to max them out, just not easily. Based on that, OSX seems to be able to scale already. Developers just need to start writing apps that are more MP friendly.
Not true, according to the article. They said it wasn't easy, but they were able to max out all 8 cores. You can see the Activity Monitor graph all filled up.
It would be nice if 10.5 would allow a more 'blind' method to utilize these cores, versus having programmers specificly program for multi-core. Now that would be extremely helpful and allow a more simultanous workflow.
That's how it is now, at least with multiple apps. I bet it's possible to program for an unspecified number of multiple cores, and there may be apps doing it already.
I was interested to see that they were unable to max out CPU utilization on all 8 cores in the system. I hope it's due to the software these days not being ready to fully utilize more than one or two cores and not due to OSX's ability to scale to larger core counts. Since that's obviously where we're heading. Does anyone know about the potential for scalability of OSX to large numbers of CPU's/cores? I know some *nix varieties and BSD varieties do this really well, but one wonders if they were thinking this far in the future when they developed OSX. It'll be interesting to see...
Read the article again, they WERE able to max them out, just not easily. Based on that, OSX seems to be able to scale already. Developers just need to start writing apps that are more MP friendly.
afrowq
Apr 10, 12:20 AM
Yes, I agreed there are professionals, but not LOTS of professionals. You don't know, cause... you don't know them, and neither do I. So these "lots" outside of your field of view may or may not be looking to switch. You see the difference, yes?
So you really think it's just a handful of people on Macrumors?
Oh, and people I know.
So, how many do you think? Less than 10? Less than 100? What is your definition of "a lot"? Also please note I never said it was any kind of majority of FCP users or anything like that. I never said it was an industry-wide pandemic, although you'd like to put those words into my mouth as well. You'd also like to paint my claim that "a lot of pros are leaving FCP" as "combative", even though it's not. It's just an observation. I don't know why you're taking it so personally.
So you really think it's just a handful of people on Macrumors?
Oh, and people I know.
So, how many do you think? Less than 10? Less than 100? What is your definition of "a lot"? Also please note I never said it was any kind of majority of FCP users or anything like that. I never said it was an industry-wide pandemic, although you'd like to put those words into my mouth as well. You'd also like to paint my claim that "a lot of pros are leaving FCP" as "combative", even though it's not. It's just an observation. I don't know why you're taking it so personally.
ECUpirate44
Apr 11, 06:39 PM
Apple is already starting to fall behind in the cell phone market, the iphone 4 has the best gui, but not the best specs...waiting till Christmas will only push them farther behind
What are you limited doing because of the current specs of the iPhone 4?
What are you limited doing because of the current specs of the iPhone 4?
KnightWRX
Apr 20, 07:47 AM
However the Galaxy devices are so close to Apple's products in appearance and design, it's very hard to tell them apart. THAT is the problem.
Don't let a few cherry picked pictures trick you, most Galaxy models don't look at all like an iPhone :
http://www.rogers.com/cms/images/en/Wireless/CellPhoneDetail/Banners/banner01_i896blkr.png
This one can go either way. Of course the Apple biased media are cherry picking their pictures. I'd doubt you'd have a hard time telling both devices apart in the real world with both in front of you.
Especially consdiring the Samsung doesn't use the icon grid on its homescreen at all, contrary to what the pictures are trying to show.
Don't let a few cherry picked pictures trick you, most Galaxy models don't look at all like an iPhone :
http://www.rogers.com/cms/images/en/Wireless/CellPhoneDetail/Banners/banner01_i896blkr.png
This one can go either way. Of course the Apple biased media are cherry picking their pictures. I'd doubt you'd have a hard time telling both devices apart in the real world with both in front of you.
Especially consdiring the Samsung doesn't use the icon grid on its homescreen at all, contrary to what the pictures are trying to show.
Xeperu
Mar 22, 01:06 PM
My take on this.
The good:
1. Great specs
2. Great price
3. Great form factor
The Bad:
1. Looks plastic fantastic
2. Android (as in: bad ecosystem)
My verdict:
No thanks, I prefer the guarantee for fresh apps and business support that iOS provides me.
The good:
1. Great specs
2. Great price
3. Great form factor
The Bad:
1. Looks plastic fantastic
2. Android (as in: bad ecosystem)
My verdict:
No thanks, I prefer the guarantee for fresh apps and business support that iOS provides me.
Bill McEnaney
Mar 1, 04:47 AM
"Homosexuality," Plato wrote, "is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce." This attitude of Plato's was characteristic of the ancient world, and I want to begin my discussion of the attitudes of the Church and of Western Christianity toward homosexuality by commenting on comparable attitudes among the ancients.
Dr. Josiah B. Gould, the Plato scholar who taught me Ancient Philosophy, told us that, that although homosexuality was common among Greek aristocrats in ancient Greece, to them, sodomy was repugnant.
Dr. Josiah B. Gould, the Plato scholar who taught me Ancient Philosophy, told us that, that although homosexuality was common among Greek aristocrats in ancient Greece, to them, sodomy was repugnant.
ergle2
Sep 13, 03:02 PM
You totally missed my point. Even if an application uses only one thread at all times, that application is still a separate process from all of the other processes you have running. At any given time you'll have at least 30 something processes, even when no user-land applications are running. OS X will spread out those processes to try to utilize all the cores as much as possible.
In reality, there are probably not too many non-Apple applications which routinely use 8 threads or more. In the near future I expect all applications to use at least 2-3 threads, even the most simple ones.
Sure, but all those background processes take next to no time to execute -- the extra latency of having more processors will probably slow things down far more than you gain from having up to 8 of those 30 be able to run at any one time.
I'm not saying there's no need for 8 cores -- markets such as databases, media production, rendering, etc. can already make use of that kind of power.
Regular desktops, not so much.
Many simple apps are already mutithreadedto some dgree, but it's to make them non-blocking rather than to spread processor load. If you look at Windows, you'll find a very high number of threads in even just a media player, but some of it's just there to repaint the GUI etc.
In reality, there are probably not too many non-Apple applications which routinely use 8 threads or more. In the near future I expect all applications to use at least 2-3 threads, even the most simple ones.
Sure, but all those background processes take next to no time to execute -- the extra latency of having more processors will probably slow things down far more than you gain from having up to 8 of those 30 be able to run at any one time.
I'm not saying there's no need for 8 cores -- markets such as databases, media production, rendering, etc. can already make use of that kind of power.
Regular desktops, not so much.
Many simple apps are already mutithreadedto some dgree, but it's to make them non-blocking rather than to spread processor load. If you look at Windows, you'll find a very high number of threads in even just a media player, but some of it's just there to repaint the GUI etc.
princealfie
Nov 29, 11:11 AM
I prefer my Count Basie off the Pablo label not Decca (Universal argmmm)... so there.
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