MadGoat
Oct 7, 11:04 AM
Of course Android might surpass the iPhone. The iPhone is limited to 1 device whereas the Android is spanned over many more devices and will continue to branch out.
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Vegasman
Apr 28, 11:09 AM
Isn't this misleading? It says 'shipped' not 'sold' so I assume basically it's a bogus report. You can ship all the crappy tablets you want..doesn't mean they sold.
Companies that "ship" stuff that people don't buy do not stay in business very long. Therefore, "shipping" is a good enough approximation 99% of the time. The other 1% is quickly identified and purged from the economy.
Companies that "ship" stuff that people don't buy do not stay in business very long. Therefore, "shipping" is a good enough approximation 99% of the time. The other 1% is quickly identified and purged from the economy.
KindredMAC
Jul 11, 11:37 PM
My DualCore 2.0 PM G5 is just fine and will be REALLY fine until CS 3 is released next spring/summer. Until then, I wouldn't be able to fully utilize the new Mac Pro. I installed my CS 2 on my MacBook and what a dog compared to my G5 at home and my G5 at work. Granted my buddy who is stuck on a 867 QuickSilver at work says that it runs about the same, but that doesn't cut it when I've been using a G5 for 2 years at work and 6 months at home.
I hope that the "little apps" out there hurry up and get converted over quicker than has been happening. Flash Player has bugged me. They keep using "Betas" and "trials". Flip4Mac hasn't released their update yet for Universal so viewing WMV's is near impossible on the MacIntels. Little things like that make a world of difference.
I hope that the "little apps" out there hurry up and get converted over quicker than has been happening. Flash Player has bugged me. They keep using "Betas" and "trials". Flip4Mac hasn't released their update yet for Universal so viewing WMV's is near impossible on the MacIntels. Little things like that make a world of difference.
Applejuice
Oct 26, 04:59 AM
anyone know how loud the new 8-core pros might be? probably impossible to speculate, but i would imagine that it will produce more heat and need better cooling than any of the current offerings.
clintob
Oct 26, 05:52 PM
I know, heat and power, blah blah blah. But are laptops really going to be left THAT far behind?
Glossing over "heat" and "power" with a blah blah blah is probably a bit cavalier. Those are the two main issues facing notebook computers. Desktops have the advantage of infinite possibilities in terms of size, scale, cooling units, fans, and they have an infinite power source to go with it. Notebooks have to balance performance with energy constraints and heat constraints, the latter being the main issue. If you pile processors into a notebook that heat up, that heat has to dissipate somehow, so you're left with two choices: make a bigger laptop with more vents/cooling units (nobody wants that), or allow that heat to dissipate naturally which has limitations. If you ignore those limitations, you end up with a notebook that overheats, and inevitably your drives die or your motherboard cracks from heat stress.
So yes, notebooks are going to start to lag behind desktops more and more as multiple cores start to proliferate because cooling units can't keep up. Yet anyway.
Glossing over "heat" and "power" with a blah blah blah is probably a bit cavalier. Those are the two main issues facing notebook computers. Desktops have the advantage of infinite possibilities in terms of size, scale, cooling units, fans, and they have an infinite power source to go with it. Notebooks have to balance performance with energy constraints and heat constraints, the latter being the main issue. If you pile processors into a notebook that heat up, that heat has to dissipate somehow, so you're left with two choices: make a bigger laptop with more vents/cooling units (nobody wants that), or allow that heat to dissipate naturally which has limitations. If you ignore those limitations, you end up with a notebook that overheats, and inevitably your drives die or your motherboard cracks from heat stress.
So yes, notebooks are going to start to lag behind desktops more and more as multiple cores start to proliferate because cooling units can't keep up. Yet anyway.
PCUser
Oct 11, 12:44 PM
This isn't going to further the discussion any, but... javahedi, perhaps you could post a link to the C code? I'd very much like to compile it with GCC under Linux and Windows. Just a curious benchmark, IMO. :) Thanks!
(Doesn't the benchmark do 1,600,000,000 calculations? 20,000 x 20,000 x 4 = 1,600,000,000... am I missing something? It does two adds, one multiply, and one sqrt per cycle. The loop cycles 400,000,000 times... ?)
(Doesn't the benchmark do 1,600,000,000 calculations? 20,000 x 20,000 x 4 = 1,600,000,000... am I missing something? It does two adds, one multiply, and one sqrt per cycle. The loop cycles 400,000,000 times... ?)
Cromulent
Mar 26, 07:45 PM
What does being gay have to do with being a priest?
Nothing other than they are both expected to practice abstinence according to one of our Catholic posters here. I thought that point was pretty clear in my post.
Nothing other than they are both expected to practice abstinence according to one of our Catholic posters here. I thought that point was pretty clear in my post.
*LTD*
Apr 10, 11:04 AM
No they don't, they don't see it as a legitimate threat because it has very little industry support.
Believe this all you want, when a company like Epic sings the praises of iOS you'd best pay attention. It's had great impact on Nintendo's mobile plans and it terrifies Microsoft (who are praying that Xbox Live on WP7 matters to enough people). When mobile gaming (i.e., on the iPad) is making such inroads into mainstream gaming, it's eventually going to have an effect on the way consumers view mainstream console gaming. In fact, this is guaranteed.
You're holding too fast to the separateness of mobile vs. console. Over the next few years you'll see that separateness blur, and probably faster than anyone would have thought. There will be a definite, palpable melding. It's inevitable.
The App Store opened in July 2008. Now look at what we have in April 2011. It's astounding. And we're already trying to get mobile devices to project games onto HD tvs. It's very, very telling. It doesn't matter how successful it is *right now.* (pretty impressive, actually.) The point is, you can see where we're going with it. When Apple says "move over, Xbox!" they aren't being glib or fulsome. It's a portent. Just a taste of what's to come.
A lot of people around these boards have absolutely NO IDEA what Apple is capable of and what they're about to do to yet another industry. Just sit back and watch.
Believe this all you want, when a company like Epic sings the praises of iOS you'd best pay attention. It's had great impact on Nintendo's mobile plans and it terrifies Microsoft (who are praying that Xbox Live on WP7 matters to enough people). When mobile gaming (i.e., on the iPad) is making such inroads into mainstream gaming, it's eventually going to have an effect on the way consumers view mainstream console gaming. In fact, this is guaranteed.
You're holding too fast to the separateness of mobile vs. console. Over the next few years you'll see that separateness blur, and probably faster than anyone would have thought. There will be a definite, palpable melding. It's inevitable.
The App Store opened in July 2008. Now look at what we have in April 2011. It's astounding. And we're already trying to get mobile devices to project games onto HD tvs. It's very, very telling. It doesn't matter how successful it is *right now.* (pretty impressive, actually.) The point is, you can see where we're going with it. When Apple says "move over, Xbox!" they aren't being glib or fulsome. It's a portent. Just a taste of what's to come.
A lot of people around these boards have absolutely NO IDEA what Apple is capable of and what they're about to do to yet another industry. Just sit back and watch.
edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 04:47 PM
Are the action of a few countries a representative of Islam?
the actions of "a few countries" that are many miles apart (so by all rights should have different cultures) but have one thing in common, ie islam, are a representation of the effects of islam.
islam is unpleasant and, i guess for want of a better word, evil.
the actions of "a few countries" that are many miles apart (so by all rights should have different cultures) but have one thing in common, ie islam, are a representation of the effects of islam.
islam is unpleasant and, i guess for want of a better word, evil.
stunna
Jul 12, 09:57 AM
Maybe Apple will give you a choice.
Blue Velvet
Sep 26, 01:35 AM
Can I ask a question? I'm a bit non-technical when it comes to things like this.
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
Full of Win
Mar 18, 10:37 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)
What we need need to do is to use our rights to their maximum amount. If you are on the so-called unlimited plan, download all that you can until you reach 4.5 GB per month (as shown by myAtt.app). Also, download during the day if possible, to cost them even more for peak usage. Leaving data on the table every month is for suckers.
What we need need to do is to use our rights to their maximum amount. If you are on the so-called unlimited plan, download all that you can until you reach 4.5 GB per month (as shown by myAtt.app). Also, download during the day if possible, to cost them even more for peak usage. Leaving data on the table every month is for suckers.
bradl
Mar 11, 01:55 AM
God Bless everyone there. I am watching this live, and saw the surge just overrunning everything inland, including cars on the highway that couldn't move out of the way.
Hawaii is under a tsunami watch, but not the West Coast yet. There is a refinery on fire that is ready to explode and am seeing on the TV that people are on tops of roofs of houses flagging the helicopter for help. 4 million people w/o power. Just incredible, not in a good way.
Hawaii, Indonesia, Philippines, Taiwan, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands are all under tsunami watch.
This one is BIG, and I seriously hope no major loss of life occurs. :(
BL.
Hawaii is under a tsunami watch, but not the West Coast yet. There is a refinery on fire that is ready to explode and am seeing on the TV that people are on tops of roofs of houses flagging the helicopter for help. 4 million people w/o power. Just incredible, not in a good way.
Hawaii, Indonesia, Philippines, Taiwan, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands are all under tsunami watch.
This one is BIG, and I seriously hope no major loss of life occurs. :(
BL.
Thunderhawks
Apr 28, 09:11 AM
You got one bright office there mate. And thank you for replying so I don't get the slightest idea in my head that I won...
hahaha
Duh, winner, winner Sheen dinner:-)
hahaha
Duh, winner, winner Sheen dinner:-)
ddtlm
Oct 12, 06:09 PM
Sheesh, where does the OSX 10.2 developer tools CD install gcc to, or under what name? The older dev tools gave me a compiler. Grumble.
wnurse
Mar 18, 03:05 PM
It's a great convenience until the RIAA gets pissed and either changes their mind about downloadable music or tells Apple to hike their prices.
We shouldn't worry though, Apple will defeat this in no time.
Really?. how?. Regardless of what apple does, it might be even easier for DVD Jon to break their new programming than for them to come up with new programming. Think about it. A company with a lot of paid developers getting outwitted by a guy with time on his hands. I think he wins everytime. Their cost to defeat him is astromnomical compared to his cost to defeat them.
Although it's an eye opener to know that itunes itself is what wraps the music with DRM. I'd have thought the music was already DRM'd on the server. But I can see why apple chose that route, so that to get DRM'd songs onto an ipod, you would have to use itunes. I bet they never thought someone would bypass the itunes interface (kind of shortsighted if you ask me, this should have been anticipated).
One way around this problem would be to store the music in an encoded format and have itunes decode the music and wrap in DRM.
Unfortunately, that can be bypassed too. A competent enough person (example DVD jon) could intercept the process between decode and before DRM wrapping and deliver the music. Another way would be for itunes server to request itunes to send a key and then use that key to add DRM to the music on server before delivering to user, although then you could build a player that intercepted the key and uses it to remove the DRM.
I'm sure for every solution apple can think of, DVD jon can think of a way to defeat it. There might be no technical solution to the problem at all.
We shouldn't worry though, Apple will defeat this in no time.
Really?. how?. Regardless of what apple does, it might be even easier for DVD Jon to break their new programming than for them to come up with new programming. Think about it. A company with a lot of paid developers getting outwitted by a guy with time on his hands. I think he wins everytime. Their cost to defeat him is astromnomical compared to his cost to defeat them.
Although it's an eye opener to know that itunes itself is what wraps the music with DRM. I'd have thought the music was already DRM'd on the server. But I can see why apple chose that route, so that to get DRM'd songs onto an ipod, you would have to use itunes. I bet they never thought someone would bypass the itunes interface (kind of shortsighted if you ask me, this should have been anticipated).
One way around this problem would be to store the music in an encoded format and have itunes decode the music and wrap in DRM.
Unfortunately, that can be bypassed too. A competent enough person (example DVD jon) could intercept the process between decode and before DRM wrapping and deliver the music. Another way would be for itunes server to request itunes to send a key and then use that key to add DRM to the music on server before delivering to user, although then you could build a player that intercepted the key and uses it to remove the DRM.
I'm sure for every solution apple can think of, DVD jon can think of a way to defeat it. There might be no technical solution to the problem at all.
ender land
Apr 23, 11:20 PM
You are correct ... there are no Gods ... zero ... nada ... zilch.
I am not sure what all that other rambling on you were going on about ... most of it made no sense
Nice. You've proven my point with that one statement. Congratulations, you are my first I & R.
Thank you. I thought it was only me.
We don't have the answers, so why must we persist in this feckless inquiry??
No, we are not the centre of the Universe, as was believed not-so-long-ago, but still our delusions of grandeur carry us forward, along this path to nothingness.
*shrug*
I guess this sort of style of posting is why the question in the OP is relevant. Thanks guys for providing examples of what I was talking about in my initial posts in this thread.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed the past few hours of posting, as I greatly enjoy people challenging my beliefs and causing me to think through positions I hold and believe. Thank you to those of you who participated in the actual discussion (this includes you Mac'nCheese, in spite of your last post). If any of you honestly do care to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me.
I am not sure what all that other rambling on you were going on about ... most of it made no sense
Nice. You've proven my point with that one statement. Congratulations, you are my first I & R.
Thank you. I thought it was only me.
We don't have the answers, so why must we persist in this feckless inquiry??
No, we are not the centre of the Universe, as was believed not-so-long-ago, but still our delusions of grandeur carry us forward, along this path to nothingness.
*shrug*
I guess this sort of style of posting is why the question in the OP is relevant. Thanks guys for providing examples of what I was talking about in my initial posts in this thread.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed the past few hours of posting, as I greatly enjoy people challenging my beliefs and causing me to think through positions I hold and believe. Thank you to those of you who participated in the actual discussion (this includes you Mac'nCheese, in spite of your last post). If any of you honestly do care to continue this discussion, feel free to PM me.
grooveattack
Apr 13, 02:40 AM
Update: An Apple rep told LoopInsight to stay tuned for news on the rest of the suite:
"Today was just a sneak peak of Final Cut Pro, stay tuned"
Motion and colour should come soon
On FCPX
OH GOD IT LOOKS KINDA LIKE IMOVIE AND IT'S UNDER $1000! clearly not for the pros and now no one can edit on this
*sarcasm*
It has a tidy ui, fully 64bit, it's ganna use all 8 of my cores, can still do exactly what current FCP can do just easier.
Looking forward to it.
I think they will still have the full studio boxed in store, I don't fancy downloading 6 DVDs worth of FCS from the app store, although it would make updates very easy.
"Today was just a sneak peak of Final Cut Pro, stay tuned"
Motion and colour should come soon
On FCPX
OH GOD IT LOOKS KINDA LIKE IMOVIE AND IT'S UNDER $1000! clearly not for the pros and now no one can edit on this
*sarcasm*
It has a tidy ui, fully 64bit, it's ganna use all 8 of my cores, can still do exactly what current FCP can do just easier.
Looking forward to it.
I think they will still have the full studio boxed in store, I don't fancy downloading 6 DVDs worth of FCS from the app store, although it would make updates very easy.
MattInOz
Apr 20, 09:55 PM
Its build right into the OS to allow tethering for Androids. I am not sure how exactly it is performed on iOS.
I don't think apple really has any think better on android. Android does have a file system, better notification and real multitasking.
Also built-in to the OS just go to settings-->personnel hotspot and flick the switch to on after heeding advice that additional charges may apply consult your carrier.
A file system could be useful, better notifications I can really understand.
"real" multitasking no-one has every been able to define a real world use that suggests that Apple's take on mobile multi-tasking means I'm missing out of function.
I know it's not "real" ie programme has free-rain to do what it pleases in the background. But how is it anymore than a marketing tag for geeks?
I don't think apple really has any think better on android. Android does have a file system, better notification and real multitasking.
Also built-in to the OS just go to settings-->personnel hotspot and flick the switch to on after heeding advice that additional charges may apply consult your carrier.
A file system could be useful, better notifications I can really understand.
"real" multitasking no-one has every been able to define a real world use that suggests that Apple's take on mobile multi-tasking means I'm missing out of function.
I know it's not "real" ie programme has free-rain to do what it pleases in the background. But how is it anymore than a marketing tag for geeks?
aiqw9182
Apr 12, 10:21 PM
This is what iMovie after iMovie '06 should have been, if only because it has a PROPER FRICKIN' TIMELINE!
Was really hoping for $199, but $299 isn't bad. I might just upgrade from iMovie '06 (I'm not really a 'pro' editor, but I love my timelines!).
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/22/timeline-tweak-returns-imovie-11-to-old-school/
Was really hoping for $199, but $299 isn't bad. I might just upgrade from iMovie '06 (I'm not really a 'pro' editor, but I love my timelines!).
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/22/timeline-tweak-returns-imovie-11-to-old-school/
Apple OC
Apr 23, 05:42 PM
exactly ^^^ you either believe or you don't
alex_ant
Oct 7, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by barkmonster
I can just see the look of disappointment on everyone's faces when the dual 1.25Ghz mac is slapped silly by both windows systems at practically everything.
Won't happen. To a Mac zealot, if the G4 is slower than anything, either 1) the benchmark was rigged, or 2) "pcheese" and "Windblowz" suck anyway.
The Pentium 5 could come along and deliver 15,000 in SPECfp and all the Mac zealots would be whining about how SPEC isn't a real-world benchmark and how Macs deliver such better real-world performance etc., even when they have nothing to substantiate their claims but the biased and selective evidence from themselves and their Mac-using friends.
I love Macs, but I harbor no illusions about them not generally being just about the slowest thing on the block at the moment.
Alex
I can just see the look of disappointment on everyone's faces when the dual 1.25Ghz mac is slapped silly by both windows systems at practically everything.
Won't happen. To a Mac zealot, if the G4 is slower than anything, either 1) the benchmark was rigged, or 2) "pcheese" and "Windblowz" suck anyway.
The Pentium 5 could come along and deliver 15,000 in SPECfp and all the Mac zealots would be whining about how SPEC isn't a real-world benchmark and how Macs deliver such better real-world performance etc., even when they have nothing to substantiate their claims but the biased and selective evidence from themselves and their Mac-using friends.
I love Macs, but I harbor no illusions about them not generally being just about the slowest thing on the block at the moment.
Alex
Thunderhawks
Apr 21, 01:26 PM
I'd agree with you. Look at the craigslist computer forum and you'll see a high number of non-tech savvy folk. He's just making a gross generalization or taking a small % and extrapolating it to the whole, both of which are flawed.
On a side note, my cup holder is flipped. Every time I put my drink on it, it spills right off. How do you keep your cup parallel to your desk on yours?
Doesn't everybody turn their computer on the side?
I alternate, so put it on the right on odd days on the left on even days.
That way my neck doesn't get strained so much when I have to read something on the screen.
On a side note, my cup holder is flipped. Every time I put my drink on it, it spills right off. How do you keep your cup parallel to your desk on yours?
Doesn't everybody turn their computer on the side?
I alternate, so put it on the right on odd days on the left on even days.
That way my neck doesn't get strained so much when I have to read something on the screen.
drevvin
May 18, 11:38 AM
drevvin: I don't know where you get your "facts" from, but this is utter B.S. according to everything my friends and I have experienced.
Other carriers are going to have just as much "network congestion" with the other smartphones they're starting to put on their systems (Android based platforms with "true web browsers", etc.). So if your statement was accurate, we'd see a surge of complaints from Verizon customers, since they got the HTC Hero and Incredible phones. We don't....
Furthermore, the dropped call issue has LONG been an issue for AT&T, no matter which phone you use with them! One of my friends had a Razr and a Blackjack phone on AT&T, and got an iPhone after that. He had the same number of call drops with any of the 3 phones while he was with them -- usually in the same places where their signal was inadequate.
Words like "horrible" are relative... What one person considers horrible, someone else will consider acceptable. But I think it's clear that AT&T is not one of the "better" providers. I have a laundry list of issues with them, including their latest screw-up ... issuing me a VISA rebate card that's not possible to activate, because they didn't set it up properly. (I'm supposed to enter the last 4 digits of my acct. number as my PIN to activate it by phone or over the web, but it won't accept them!) They're also notorious for screwing up my billing by not sending me a bill one month, and then billing me for 2 consecutive months - if I don't proactively sign into the web and pay them first. They're FAR more expensive than some of their competitors for basic voice service, despite the relatively lousy coverage. And even the rollover minutes are subject to cancellation under all sorts of conditions, including when you decide to go from a more expensive plan to a less expensive one or fail to use them up in a 1 year period of time.
An over-saturation of data usage on a cellular network should cause issues with poor DATA performance, but should have NO bearing on dropped calls on the VOICE side. I'd be relatively ok with occasional poor data performance, because that's of secondary importance to me, really. You can always retry a download or wait a little longer for an email to pull in. But the VOICE side needs to be pretty bulletproof. You can't recover from dropped calls without redialing the phone.... AT&T seems to be playing a lot of games of promising data network improvements in response to people's complaints of VOICE issues, hoping they're ignorant of the way the network works.... (Voice issues are more expensive for them to fix since it usually means new towers have to be put up, vs. possibly just increasing some back-haul bandwidth to an existing tower.)
Ok just to reference your statement about data using seperate channels and what not I guess you are not privy to the technology used in cell towers, congestion is caused as a cell tower can only handle so many requests, DATA or VOICE.....So fyi Data requests can congest and cause problems with voice even on the Un Touched Super Squeeky Clean power known as Verizon's network.....and again it mostly boils down to the lack of experience in Apple's Iphone which I myself use but I understand that if I wanna use a phone just for voice I would not use the Iphone I would go with Motorola or Nokia but because I wanna have a (Phone, Camera, PDA, Mp3 Player, Internet and Email Portal, Game Device,) I use the Iphone and don't complain when my voice suffers at the cost of having the ability to do all that. But thats just me.
Other carriers are going to have just as much "network congestion" with the other smartphones they're starting to put on their systems (Android based platforms with "true web browsers", etc.). So if your statement was accurate, we'd see a surge of complaints from Verizon customers, since they got the HTC Hero and Incredible phones. We don't....
Furthermore, the dropped call issue has LONG been an issue for AT&T, no matter which phone you use with them! One of my friends had a Razr and a Blackjack phone on AT&T, and got an iPhone after that. He had the same number of call drops with any of the 3 phones while he was with them -- usually in the same places where their signal was inadequate.
Words like "horrible" are relative... What one person considers horrible, someone else will consider acceptable. But I think it's clear that AT&T is not one of the "better" providers. I have a laundry list of issues with them, including their latest screw-up ... issuing me a VISA rebate card that's not possible to activate, because they didn't set it up properly. (I'm supposed to enter the last 4 digits of my acct. number as my PIN to activate it by phone or over the web, but it won't accept them!) They're also notorious for screwing up my billing by not sending me a bill one month, and then billing me for 2 consecutive months - if I don't proactively sign into the web and pay them first. They're FAR more expensive than some of their competitors for basic voice service, despite the relatively lousy coverage. And even the rollover minutes are subject to cancellation under all sorts of conditions, including when you decide to go from a more expensive plan to a less expensive one or fail to use them up in a 1 year period of time.
An over-saturation of data usage on a cellular network should cause issues with poor DATA performance, but should have NO bearing on dropped calls on the VOICE side. I'd be relatively ok with occasional poor data performance, because that's of secondary importance to me, really. You can always retry a download or wait a little longer for an email to pull in. But the VOICE side needs to be pretty bulletproof. You can't recover from dropped calls without redialing the phone.... AT&T seems to be playing a lot of games of promising data network improvements in response to people's complaints of VOICE issues, hoping they're ignorant of the way the network works.... (Voice issues are more expensive for them to fix since it usually means new towers have to be put up, vs. possibly just increasing some back-haul bandwidth to an existing tower.)
Ok just to reference your statement about data using seperate channels and what not I guess you are not privy to the technology used in cell towers, congestion is caused as a cell tower can only handle so many requests, DATA or VOICE.....So fyi Data requests can congest and cause problems with voice even on the Un Touched Super Squeeky Clean power known as Verizon's network.....and again it mostly boils down to the lack of experience in Apple's Iphone which I myself use but I understand that if I wanna use a phone just for voice I would not use the Iphone I would go with Motorola or Nokia but because I wanna have a (Phone, Camera, PDA, Mp3 Player, Internet and Email Portal, Game Device,) I use the Iphone and don't complain when my voice suffers at the cost of having the ability to do all that. But thats just me.
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